Over heating / engine bogging down - RESULTS
#11
RE: Over heating / engine bogging down - any ideas?
I had my water pump come apart on my civic the week after i bought it. had that repaired and a month later from that one time overheating it the head gasket blew.
I kept it full of water, and stopped to cool down several times, but did have to run it very hot to get it home when that happened.
I immediately knew it was the head gasket, white smoke, rough idle, hesitant to start, and pretty severe coolant loss. so I had my buddy help me trailer it to his house, and then drove it up in his garage, let it cool over night and we pulled the head the next morning... Using what DIY mechanic trsicks and prcedures we knew/had available, we cleaned the head up really good, took it out doors in natural light and checked it thoroughly with a magnifying glass for cracks, any damage to the valve seats, and then checked it at several angle with a straight edge for warpage... ( Yes, yes, yes... ideally you would take it to a machine shop and have them magnaflux it, which will check for cracks, and then have them mic it to see if it's straight, and mill it if nessecary...) but that costs more than I had available, and I needed it quick. From what we could see... It turned out to be fine, other than the gasket that was blown in three places; none of which went into an oil passage, which is pretty unusual, normally you get coolant mixing in the oil...
Anyway, that was a little over a year ago, and now i'm at 38 thousand miles later and it runs great. I did have to replace a couple of other things though. The high pressure of the engine through the cooling system because of the blown gasket caused the radiator seals to fail, and the radiator cap to fail. I replaced the radiator, hoses, and cap. in addition to the head gasket.
If your mechanical, it's really not TOO bad, the hardest part is probably getting the timing marks lined up, then getting the timing belt off... after that it's just reading and folloing directions and specifications in the book. we took a short cut at the t-belt... we lined up the marks, unbolted the head, slipped it out towards the tranny, and left the t-belt on everything else, there's no way it could move or anything, the tensioner keopt it pinned tight, and with all those teeth it wasn;t going anywhere, I will say that it was a real b to get it back on that way though, it sure came off a lot easier than it went back... the head can be romoved with the intake manifold and exhaust manifold attached, so theres two gaskets you wont have to replace... My mechanic quoted ten hours @ 75/hr shop rate, so that's $750 before any parts, still less than what he normally gets, I decided not to go that route since I did the job before on my ford, and knew the gasket set was under 100 bucks...
Hope it all works out for ya though... maybe you'll get as lucky as I did, and just a gasket will do the trick...
I kept it full of water, and stopped to cool down several times, but did have to run it very hot to get it home when that happened.
I immediately knew it was the head gasket, white smoke, rough idle, hesitant to start, and pretty severe coolant loss. so I had my buddy help me trailer it to his house, and then drove it up in his garage, let it cool over night and we pulled the head the next morning... Using what DIY mechanic trsicks and prcedures we knew/had available, we cleaned the head up really good, took it out doors in natural light and checked it thoroughly with a magnifying glass for cracks, any damage to the valve seats, and then checked it at several angle with a straight edge for warpage... ( Yes, yes, yes... ideally you would take it to a machine shop and have them magnaflux it, which will check for cracks, and then have them mic it to see if it's straight, and mill it if nessecary...) but that costs more than I had available, and I needed it quick. From what we could see... It turned out to be fine, other than the gasket that was blown in three places; none of which went into an oil passage, which is pretty unusual, normally you get coolant mixing in the oil...
Anyway, that was a little over a year ago, and now i'm at 38 thousand miles later and it runs great. I did have to replace a couple of other things though. The high pressure of the engine through the cooling system because of the blown gasket caused the radiator seals to fail, and the radiator cap to fail. I replaced the radiator, hoses, and cap. in addition to the head gasket.
If your mechanical, it's really not TOO bad, the hardest part is probably getting the timing marks lined up, then getting the timing belt off... after that it's just reading and folloing directions and specifications in the book. we took a short cut at the t-belt... we lined up the marks, unbolted the head, slipped it out towards the tranny, and left the t-belt on everything else, there's no way it could move or anything, the tensioner keopt it pinned tight, and with all those teeth it wasn;t going anywhere, I will say that it was a real b to get it back on that way though, it sure came off a lot easier than it went back... the head can be romoved with the intake manifold and exhaust manifold attached, so theres two gaskets you wont have to replace... My mechanic quoted ten hours @ 75/hr shop rate, so that's $750 before any parts, still less than what he normally gets, I decided not to go that route since I did the job before on my ford, and knew the gasket set was under 100 bucks...
Hope it all works out for ya though... maybe you'll get as lucky as I did, and just a gasket will do the trick...
#12
RE: Over heating / engine bogging down - any ideas?
Thanks for the detailed post. Congratulations on a successful gasket change and I envy your bravery!I will post the results as soon as my mechanic comes back with his assessment.
Garon
1995 Honda Civic EX
137,000 miles
Garon
1995 Honda Civic EX
137,000 miles
#13
RE: Over heating / engine bogging down - any ideas?
kinosh - the engine is not 'toast' just because of a warped head. The block is cast iron and much more durable to heat distortion than the cast aluminum head - which is why the head warps first. Most likely, the block is fine. But he won't know for sure until he has the head off and can tell for himself.
Mine was warped when I bought it, and a good machine shop can have it all sqaured away for cheaper than a buying a remanufactured head from a parts store - mine cost $180 to re-true the warpage, re-mill the mating surface, check/repair the valve guides, and a complete valve job. While he has the head off, it would be a good time to learn how to do the timing belt if he hasn't done one before.
Damage to the pistons is much tougher to repair than having the head re-done - you have to pull the bottom-end apart to replace pistons... and if you're going to do one, you might as well do them all. Damage to the valves can be taken care of by the same machine shop that works on the head.
You shouldn't ever tell someone they can't do something just because you don't feel comfortable with it. (Not meant to be insulting... I just don't know any nicer way to say that) It also sounds to me like you had a crappy mechanic 3 years ago. Any mechanic willing to take money for their services should know how to check for head/block warpage and/or be smart enough to farm out something they can't do. They'll usually just add it into your bill and say they did it anyway - unless they're honest and tell you about it.
Garon, if you're an average DIY mechanic, you can do a head-gasket swap. Follow the directions in the Hayne's manual, and get some more help via other online sources. Here's one of my favorites:
http://www.honda-civiconline.com/CIVIC%201995-1997.html
I'm used to having a full shop at my disposal (thanks to the Air Force spoiling me with the Auto Hobby Shop), but since it's currently undergoing renovations, I had to repair my '95 VX in the driveway. The only specialty tools I needed were a torque-wrench, a telescoping mirror (to see where everything was connected under the intake manifold during disassembly), and a telescoping magnet (to chase some bolts I dropped) - everything else pretty much came apart and went back together with standard tools.
It may seem like a daunting task ahead of you to replace a head gasket. But if you don't challenge yourself, then you'll never get any better. A big 'moment' for me to let go of my apprehensiveness of repairing the 'big stuff' was one weekend, something happened to my '78 K5 Blazer - the tranny felt like it had let go. So I tore out the whole driveline (from the flywheel to the rear axle - and there's a lot more going on under a full-size 4x4 than under the hood of any Civic) before I figured out the spider gears in the rear axle itself had let go. I had it all back together after I scored a junkyard rear axle in time to drive it back to work Monday morning. I had never done anything like that before... but once I had done it, suddenly stuff like that didn't scare me as much.
Follow the directions, and just do it. So you have to monkey with the camshaft position - Haynes and the online site I posted tells you how to do it. So you have to set the timing - you need to know how to do that anyway and those sources tell you how to do it. You'll do fine. Get a friend you trust (with some wrenching skills) to help you out, and take your time.
Mine was warped when I bought it, and a good machine shop can have it all sqaured away for cheaper than a buying a remanufactured head from a parts store - mine cost $180 to re-true the warpage, re-mill the mating surface, check/repair the valve guides, and a complete valve job. While he has the head off, it would be a good time to learn how to do the timing belt if he hasn't done one before.
Damage to the pistons is much tougher to repair than having the head re-done - you have to pull the bottom-end apart to replace pistons... and if you're going to do one, you might as well do them all. Damage to the valves can be taken care of by the same machine shop that works on the head.
You shouldn't ever tell someone they can't do something just because you don't feel comfortable with it. (Not meant to be insulting... I just don't know any nicer way to say that) It also sounds to me like you had a crappy mechanic 3 years ago. Any mechanic willing to take money for their services should know how to check for head/block warpage and/or be smart enough to farm out something they can't do. They'll usually just add it into your bill and say they did it anyway - unless they're honest and tell you about it.
Garon, if you're an average DIY mechanic, you can do a head-gasket swap. Follow the directions in the Hayne's manual, and get some more help via other online sources. Here's one of my favorites:
http://www.honda-civiconline.com/CIVIC%201995-1997.html
I'm used to having a full shop at my disposal (thanks to the Air Force spoiling me with the Auto Hobby Shop), but since it's currently undergoing renovations, I had to repair my '95 VX in the driveway. The only specialty tools I needed were a torque-wrench, a telescoping mirror (to see where everything was connected under the intake manifold during disassembly), and a telescoping magnet (to chase some bolts I dropped) - everything else pretty much came apart and went back together with standard tools.
It may seem like a daunting task ahead of you to replace a head gasket. But if you don't challenge yourself, then you'll never get any better. A big 'moment' for me to let go of my apprehensiveness of repairing the 'big stuff' was one weekend, something happened to my '78 K5 Blazer - the tranny felt like it had let go. So I tore out the whole driveline (from the flywheel to the rear axle - and there's a lot more going on under a full-size 4x4 than under the hood of any Civic) before I figured out the spider gears in the rear axle itself had let go. I had it all back together after I scored a junkyard rear axle in time to drive it back to work Monday morning. I had never done anything like that before... but once I had done it, suddenly stuff like that didn't scare me as much.
Follow the directions, and just do it. So you have to monkey with the camshaft position - Haynes and the online site I posted tells you how to do it. So you have to set the timing - you need to know how to do that anyway and those sources tell you how to do it. You'll do fine. Get a friend you trust (with some wrenching skills) to help you out, and take your time.
#14
RE: Over heating / engine bogging down - any ideas?
Wait a sec.... I thought the blocks were aluminum too.... on the D15B7 like in my civic dx, and on the D16Z6 like in Garon's 95EX.... I swear Someone had told me that they are aluminum... so which is it, aluminum or cast iron???
#16
RE: Over heating / engine bogging down - RESULTS!
Sorry it took a while to post, but here were the results [see first post for symptoms].
1) Overheating - there was a very small leak on the thermostat housing. I was unable to see it and the liquid would evaporate when hitting the engine. I replaced the the thermostat and thermostat gasket ($15)
2)Overheating - my radiator cap was cracked on the inside and not holding the proper pressure. I replaced the cap ($5)
3) The engine was"barely running" because of misfiring due tofaulty plug wires. I replaced the wires ($35)
The diagnosis wasperformed by a very reputable shop for $85.Since the problem was not the head gasket,I thanked them and proudly fixed these myself. My wife now thinks Iam "super mechanic".
The only strange thing about the diagnosis is they also said the radiator was leaking and needed to be replaced. I believe this was an honest misdiagnosis of the radiator as it appears just fine.
1) Overheating - there was a very small leak on the thermostat housing. I was unable to see it and the liquid would evaporate when hitting the engine. I replaced the the thermostat and thermostat gasket ($15)
2)Overheating - my radiator cap was cracked on the inside and not holding the proper pressure. I replaced the cap ($5)
3) The engine was"barely running" because of misfiring due tofaulty plug wires. I replaced the wires ($35)
The diagnosis wasperformed by a very reputable shop for $85.Since the problem was not the head gasket,I thanked them and proudly fixed these myself. My wife now thinks Iam "super mechanic".
The only strange thing about the diagnosis is they also said the radiator was leaking and needed to be replaced. I believe this was an honest misdiagnosis of the radiator as it appears just fine.
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