I can't ban you nor would I choose to. I'm just saying... if you keep flipping out on everybody you're going to get banned eventually.

 

lalala idk keeping you around still serves the lulz purpose

 

96 Civic DX does show respect to all members and is here on the forum legitly looking for help and helps EVERYTIME he can.

Ban would be stupid as hell over one thread like this one.

 

Thank you NIKE.

I know when I first joined this forum I was a dumb little ricer who did nothing but run my mouth and disagree with everyone.
I am not like that at all anymore.

 

fixed

 

So anyways

There has been some more info released on this case.

The cop is at some hotel right now in protective watch or somethin like that.

The cop has massive bruises from being choked by the kid. Also the gun was apparently laying on the ground when they were fighting. When the kid got up after nearly choking the officer to death the officer shot at him.

I am not on anyones side at this point. There is still alot to hear about the story.

 

believe me if i was being an *** you would be banned. but im not an *** just ask other members im the most out going person on here. i posted that pic to show you your doing it wrong as in your attitude in this thread and others in this thread too. so lets stop the bashing and act like civilized members.

 

Stop appologizing. I don't care what you do with your life, nor do I care about your opinion. Just don't be suprised when you end up with a chest full of lead and a broken hearted family when something like this happens to you.


This is the kind of thing that ALWAYS gets left out of the initial article. The press wants to put everyone in a state of shock and awe right off the bat, to keep them buying/reading their articles.

Until theres a trial with solid evidence and testimonies, none of us will ever know what really happened.

 

I know this is my first post...Ill introduce myself later...But I couldnt help but post something about this.

For one thing, use of force policies vary from agency to agency. There are many factors that go into determining what amount of force an officer can and cannot use.

officer size vs suspect
officer fitness level vs suspect
officer training vs known skills of the suspect (martial artist? ex-military?)
weapons the officer has at his or her disposal
the situation in general
***how the officer perceives the 'threat' *** Ill explain below
the known criminal history of the suspect
is there backup in the area?
how long has the fight been going on?
etc..etc...

***A 6'1 200 lb man with training in Akido, BJJ and kickboxing, such as myself, is not going to consider a 5'11 180 man as a huge threat. However take a female officer that is 5'9 and 100lbs and put her up against the same attacker. That is a MUCH bigger threat to her. If the suspect started wrestling with me I could probably take him down and submit him, however the female officer could go straight to shooting him in the face if need be. It's all perception.***

Many agencies have what is known as a stair step use of force policy. That means that whatever a suspect does, the officer can go one level of force above that.

Here is the general order.

Officer presence
verbal commands
soft empty hands (wrist locks, joint manipulation etc..)
soft closed hands
hard closed hands (punches, kicks, knees, etc...)
less lethal weapons (keep in mind that some agencies do not issue tasers, batons or OC)
deadly force

This means, for example, that if a suspect throws a punch, you can immediatly move to less lethal weapons (taser, pepper spray, batons...)

Example, if a suspect comes at an officer with what the officer perceives to be a weapon he or she can use deadly force. (knives, guns, chairs, bricks, rakes....you name it.) If the person is a black belt in BJJ and an officer knows it they can immediatly jump up the use of force scale and go to say, less lethal weapons.)

Many agencies use this use of force scale, yet add that an officer can use whatever force they deem necessary under the circumstances to end the threat based on the considerations listed above.


In this situation for example. The officer was 37 and the suspect was 24 and probably (only can assume) in much better shape than the officer. I don't know how long they fought, but every minute spent fighting is equal to running one mile.

Now, if the officer ended up on the ground with the suspect standing over him the suspect is still a threat. Remember that an officer can take into consideration their fitness level vs. the subject.

It is possible that the officer had no more fight left in him. Had the suspect jumped back on him he would not have been able to defend himself adequately. This being the case, the officer can jump up the use of force scale and consider the suspect's hands weapons (less lethal force) and assume that he was not done fighting. Now the officer can go to deadly force to stop the threat. If he is *** tired at this point it would be like the suspect vs. a 10 year old.

In addition, there is a known physiological change that occurs when you are in a fight called auditory exclusion. You focus in on what you are doing at that exact moment and are unable to understand or hear external noise (speaking, for example). It is linked with the fight or flight response.

(There are other stages during a fight where your minor muscle groups stop working as they should because of increased heart rate and you are forced to use major muscle groups - many agencies take this into consideration when they train and use akido locks and take downs as a basis for training. They involve major muscle groups. Just a side note for you.)

However, with auditory exclusion and adrenaline in full effect there is a good chance that the officer did not hear the suspect say he was done fighting.

Keep in mind, I wasn't there, and I didn't read the news stories. I am basing some of what I said off of the OP's post. From I gather they fought and the officer ending up on the ground with the suspect standing over him lifting his arms and then the officer shot him...correct? And a hand around the throat is considered deadly force. The officer was justified if that was the case.

I just wanted to give some info on use of force policies...hopefully it helps.

 

Wow...

That all actually made sense to me. Usually I just skip posts that long but im glad I read through that.

Thanks naex, and welcome to HCF. You should start a thread about your ride and post up some pictures.